Howard Siegel
Narrator
Matthew Siegel
Interviewer
with comments by Colin Bellotti & Mason Cudlitz
May 17, 2014
at Howard Siegel’s Home
Los Angeles, California
Matthew Siegel - MS
Colin Bellotti - CB
Mason Cudlitz - MC
Howard Siegel - HS
MS: When I say Korean War, what is the first thing that you think of?
HS: Aggravation.
MS: How old were you when the Korean War started and how did this affect your feelings or understanding of the war?
HS: I think I was 17. Everybody thought it was an idiotic war to be into because we had no business being there. We’d taken it over because the Koreans didn’t want to have anything to do with them. They wanted to kill them. So we got stuck with it. The air force went there. Then, they wanted to move out, so they moved out. We went in.
MS: When you say you specifically, who are you talking about?
HS: The international guard. California Air Guard.
MS: What was your life like at the time?
HS: I was running stores for Ralph’s and training meat cutters– training people to run stores… management.
MS: What prompted you to join?
HS: I was a member of the reserve. I didn’t get asked. I got told. Comes in the form of a stack of orders.
MS: When the general public initially heard about the war, how did they immediately react?
HS: They were not to happy. It was not that short after WWII was over. So people were not anxious to see us going to war again. And they thought Korea was the middle of nowhere. Basically. And they thought we were taking somebody else’s war we shouldn’t have touched. There were all kinds of protests. All over. Every part of the country was screaming, “Don’t go!” The president had his thing and he said what we were going to do and we did it.
MS: What were your first days in service like?
HS: Mostly training. Well, mine was different because I was medical corps. I was surgical tech. The guys who went in at first went through bootcamp, which was a lot more rougher for them than it was for me.
MS: Was it difficult for you to adjust to this new lifestyle?
HS: No.
MS: No.
HS: No.
MS: Did you ever keep a personally diary or write to someone in your spare time?
HS: No. I wrote to your mother, but that’s about it. I’m not a prolific writer unless I have to.
MS: What exactly was your job during the Korean War? If you could go into specific details.
HS: I ran a crash crew. I ran surgery ‘cause I was surgical tech. We operated on people who’d come in and had mostly the veterans who they’d ship back to the states and still had problems. Either what went on in Korea was not a toting job or it was botched and then we would go and make all the changes and then get them back to what they’re doing and we’d send them to V.A. And occasionally V.A. would call and scream, “We need some help!” And then those of us who worked surgery would go to the V.A.
MS: So in what state were patients when they came back to you?
HS: They were injured. They had wounds. Some of them were mental cases. Test your usual run of the line that you get when some people have been in war. That’s why the V.A. has been out there as long as it has.
MS: Are there any specific things that come to mind? Like any specific cases that you worked at that time?
HS: I’ve worked in a lot of cases, mostly minor surgery. I cut them up to put them back together.
MS: Did it ever feel like the threat of communism was going to spread to America?
HS: Well, that’s what the congress was trying to teach us, which they embossed it too much and that’s why most of them got thrown out of office eventually. It was not a popular war. Came too close after World War II, and nobody knew where the hell Korea was when it started. So, it just was not a popular war. Probably least popular.
MS: So did it ever feel like communism was going to spread? Or was there no worry?
HS: Well, that’s what they were promoting. Keep the communisms out of here. Keep it from spreading. Blah blah blah blah blah, which was mostly talk. ‘Cause none of them knew what they were doing anyway.
CB: Were you worried about communism spreading?
HS: No, but I was ex-military because I was still in the military as a reservist. I knew that if we had to we could go and just bring an army out there and go back to beating the hell out of them. We’d done it once. We could do it a second time. We could do it a third time if we had to. The biggest thing that gave us the edge was our air power. They would just obliterate whole sections. You send 50-100 bombers in. They all drop bombs. There’s nothing left there. Take my word for it.
MS: Did you ever know anyone who did feel that way?
HS: Not really. There’s always a few bleeding hearts.
MS: Did you ever feel like the Korean War would lead to another full scaled World War?
HS: Only people who believed that were the politicians. They were sort of hoping for it, “Good we could spend all these millions!”
MS: What new perspectives, if any, did you gain about the United States or your role in the world that you had not previously had before the war?
HS: Basically, that we could do what was necessary if it had to be done, and that we were the first group to be called up after WWII. We did our job, and we came back and we brought back most of the troops. So, it was unusual. It wasn’t where you had a hundred thousand people in your army annihilated because you had God knows how many Germans fighting.
MS: Did you ever know anyone that was accused of being a communist?
HS: Yes.
CB: What were your thoughts on their way of life? Were you accepting of them or?
HS: No. We helped them get put into a special category which took them bye bye. What’s interesting, before that nobody worried about people bringing people who weren’t in the military. And after that, these people didn’t want to get caught. Didn’t want to go and have it put on their record. So, it became hard to get them. Make them either go through the process or be put in a different category. They’d leave them there. They would tell them them point blank. There’s nothing to go and show you what to do. There’s nothing to make you do it.
MS: What was your experience with those people once you found out they were communists?
HS: Just to try and get them to do what they had to do and get out.
MS: So within the military, it’s fair to say there was a very anti-communist sort of vibe?
HS: Yeah usually. Usually.
MS: Did you ever have any direct experience in the communist blacklistings?
HS: I’ve seen people who have been blacklisted.
MS: That was generally a good thing when that happened?
HS: Yes and no. It went berserk. Like everything else when people go, “[gasp] We gotta get them!” Up where the park is, there’s a building that used to be a small form of the VA enforcement, that sort of thing, and they wanted to make sure they could qualify everyone who had to be sent some place, which didn’t last long ‘cause they got too many of them with not enough places to put them. That’s when they had the investigation of the Unamerican Activities Committee. And they said, “There’s only supposed to be 10% communists here, and you have 100,000 people going through all of our jails.” And then congress went and kicked their butt, and they straightened it out. It was wild for a long time. They would see somebody, and somebody makes some liberal comment, “They must be a communist. Listen what they’re spouting. Call the cops and tell ‘em.” And then the poor cops would end up with 14, 15, 16 people coming to this station because [gasp] these people said they’re communists. And man, it would take forever to get them released or put on probation or do whatever they were going to do before they get turned loose. So you’d have all these people having to be fed, having to have medical care, having to be guarded, and somebody finally woke up in the state senate and the Commie Board of Supervisors going, “Hey, do you know how much money this is costing us? We’re not supposed to have them!”
MC: Would you say that the label as a witch hunt is accurate?
HS: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Half the people wouldn’t believe it, but it’s typically a witch hunt. They weren’t quite as mad as they were going and wearing white hoods and that sort of thing.
CB: When did you work in film?
HS: Oh God. 16, 17, and 18.
MS: So that’d be before the Korean War?
HS: Well, Korean War was on, and that was before I had to go visit it.
CB: So during that time did you see a lot of movie stars get put behind bars for being com[munists]?
HS: There were a fair amount. There wasn’t a huge amount. They more threatened them.
MS: Anyone that you knew personally?
HS: Yeah, a few that I knew personally. ‘Cause I used to be down in the studios and when they were short somebody, I’d get called in and get paid for one or three days or whatever it was, and they paid very well. Of course, you had a couple of uncles who were directors and made movies. It is not a good industry.
MS: So what were your opinions on General MacArthur?
HS: MacArthur? Well, shall I give you the military’s stime on him?
MS: Both or all of them.
HS: Most of the people who were in the service thought he was an S.O.B. ‘cause he thought he was God. He thought when he got his fourth star, he could do anything he wanted– didn’t give a damn what ever happened to anybody else. They were going to do it his way. Or he was going to make sure they were court martialed. Well, after they court martialed a bunch of people, all these people said, “Yeah? Then we want MacArthur court martialed ‘cause he’s a useless son of a bitch.” and they said it in front of cameras. And, they said it to congressmen. That was when they called him for congressional committee and fired his ass. He was a real West Pointerter. Some West Pointerters are great, and some of them are just so dumb. That wall could tell me more than most of them could do.
MS: So most of the people in the service were happy with how Truman handled MacArthur?
HS: Oh yeah. They were ready to give Truman a medal. Truman was a different type of character. He was the senator from Missouri, he’d been in the World War I, and he’d basically would get up in congress and say to the generals, “I don’t give a damn what you say. I’ve been there, done that so don’t tell me what the hell you’re going to do. Just get your in gear and do it!” And the newspapers and the television just ate him up. That’s why he ran for election ‘cause then he couldn’t be beaten.
MS: So what do you think of how Truman handled the war?
HS: He did the best he could. Gotta remember he was a minor senator who’d never been let loose, and then when Alben Barkley had his heart attack, who was supposed to become president after the present had died, they sent him in and the next thing he knew, he was in Korea with the troops, but he was sharp. Ex-soldier. He’d just say, “Get up there and get ‘em!”
MS: And most people were in support of that idea?
HS: Yeah. After you’ve had a war screwing around for 5 or 6 years. The public doesn’t want to know about it, they want it done. Get the hell out. Get finished. Kill them all. Go home. That was the big thing. The Times probably has copies of those papers. He would go, “We don’t need this! Get out troops out!” and everybody’d go, “God, he’s nasty.” He’d go, “Yeah, I am! I’m president also! You’ll do what I tell you!” And he was that way. He was something else.
MC: So you said, “Kill them all.” What was the public opinion on using nuclear weapons on Korea?
HS: Get it done and get it over with. ‘Cause we were losing, the Koreans were almost the same as the Japanese ‘cause the Japanese had been in Korea. So, they were all for kamikaze attacks, kill everybody, don’t care who they are. And, when they started trying to do it here, they sent the marines in, and they said, “Let’s blow ‘em all up.” And they did pretty good. And all of a sudden, they didn’t want to fight anymore.
MS: So specifically what did you think about the speculation that we should drop an atomic bomb on Korea?
HS: It was reasonable. We would’ve had to have spent probably another 5 or 6 years without it and probably suffered maybe 100,000 casualties and losses. Why put up with it when you can take an atomic bomb and go BOOM and there’s nothing left? And all the guys that I knew that were flying there said, “Man, love it.” ‘Cause they wanted to come home.
MS: Right, so it was seen as an easy means to a short end to the war?
HS: Yeah. It was. It ended the war over night.
MS: Right. What do you think of how Eisenhower handled the war?
HS: Eisenhower was a different thing. Eisenhower was a West Pointer trained officer who had commanded troops in the field, and he knew what he was doing. So, when they needed somebody because they were running into massive losses, they said, “Put your stars on, you’re going to go and run the troops in Korea.” And, he did a hell of a job. And he told the Koreans, “You will fight with us, or we will make sure you can go and visit the communists and stay there.”
MS: Was there a lot of Korean dissent from the American involvement?
HS: Not really, there was a lot of it because you’ve got to remember, here was a country that, for 100 years, were ruled by the others and they were obnoxious. They didn’t care how many people they killed. They caught you and you were there and they thought you were doing something, they just blow you away. It wasn’t ’til we got there and started killing them that it ceased.
MS: I’m not sure how much you know in this subject, but what did you think of Syngman Rhee? The Leader of Korea at the time?
HS: He had a very difficult job. He did a good job. They had not had a president who could actually run the country for probably thirty years. He got the job, and went at it full of steam. The U.S. government said we will give you everything you need just get them the hell out of here. And he did. He was a character. He liked to play God, but he got the job done. And at a certain point, you don’t care how they get the job done, just as long so they get the job done.
MS: So, how do you think the war affected the world over all?
HS: It actually showed that the U.S. was a power to be reckoned with. And that we could train an army of a country that we were supporting, and they could go do the job with us. And Eventually they did it themselves.
MS: So, what distinguishable point or goal did we accomplish or meet by going into Korea, in your eyes?
HS: We got the communists out of there, because they were stealing the country blind. We got them out of there so they couldn’t convert a bunch of people into making them all soldiers, and we stabilized the country, and it’s been a good training field for us. It’s been a good place to send stuff, or to have them send us stuff.
MS: Do you think it’s gone well since the end of the war in Korea?
HS: Oh ya, one hundred percent better, because during the war it was the pits.
MS: Do you reflect on the war, and your role in the war in a fond way?
HS: I wouldn’t say fond way. It was something that had to be done, and we did it. I mean I don’t think anybody really wants to go to war, if you could avoid it, but at that point it was either watch Korea disappear and probably our units there, and would cost us a lot of injuries, and a lot of casualties, so we went in, did what had to be done, and then got the hell out.
CB: So you have no regrets about the war, or just how it’s handled, or your role in the war.
HS: Well, no, I don’t have any regrets. It had to be done. I mean you can either sit there, and get your people killed, or your ass kicked, or you can go and fight back, and show them that you are stronger than they are and defeat them. You know, there’s… people think because a lot of the- I don’t like using the words pacifists, but they are- there are a lot of congressmen and senators who don’t want to be responsible for having people killed. Then hell, why the hell did you run for office? Basically what are you doing in the congress of the United States? We used to go and rag on some of the congressmen and senators like you can’t believe, because they come up with “Well maybe we should go and give them more weapons, and pull all our troops out.” Well ya, and then all your troops get killed off waiting for them to do anything, and you know, it’s the way things are. We saw that in other wars. It doesn’t work. When you go to war, you kick ass. Plain and simple. You don’t sit back and go “Oh ya, we’ll see what you’re going to do”. No, cause you’ll be carrying the body count.
MS: So, feeling they way that you feel about the Korean war, were you in favor of Vietnam, or should we have intervened in-
HS: We didn’t have any way of getting us out of Vietnam, because it was in such a disaster, that we had to go in just to keep us getting- the big thought was “We don’t want to be in world war three”, and that’s why we went in… basically. And then we also did well, because we got all sorts of things out of Korea.
MS: Was there ever a point where you were worried that… maybe… either the Russians would invade places like Europe, or the United States even?
HS: No.
MS: No?
HS: At that point, you have to remember, we had SAC, and the Russians were told pointedly at the U.N. by the president, and the chief of staff that if they dropped so much as one goddamn bomb we would obliterate the whole country. And we could do it. At that point we had, probably, the number one air force in the world.
MS: Was there ever a point where you feel like we should have done something preemptively?
HS: We probably should have, but you’re dealing with politicians. You’re dealing with people who don’t want to make waves, and that’s why we were late getting into world war one. That’s why we barely got into world war two, and Korea. Because, you had all these people going “*gasp* We don’t need all that. We should just talk to them.” Well… talk doesn’t do anything. It’s like, you’re going into a liquor store, and a guy, standing there with a gun- are you going to talk to him? Hell no. You’re going to run like hell the other way… unless you have a weapon. *Chuckles*
CB: So, would you have advocated invading Russia at some point, during the Cold War?
HS: Only if they attacked us. Because, at that point we were very strong. I was still in the reserves. We were very strong. We had the ability to go kick their ass with the strategic air command. And they were told that. The first time you try to taek over some part of us, or attack any of us, we will obliterate the Soviet Union, down to the last goddamn soul. And they said “You wouldn’t”. And we said, “Watch us”. I mean, I will say one thing for the president of the time. He was a feisty old man. And he just said to him “We don’t have to take your crap. We’re not going to take your crap.”, and I mean, he said it point blank.
MS: Which president exactly?
HS: Oh, the one that took over from Roosevelt. What the hell was his name?
MS: Truman?
HS: From Kentucky. Ya, from Kentucky… or… something like that.
MS: The name isn’t coming to me right now.
HS: Ya, but he was president at the time and he says “We can’t back down”. I mean he was an old Cavalry officer, and he went into politics and he just said, point blank, “There is no way we’re going to put up with this shit”, and that’s exactly the way he said it too. And he says “We’re gonna go in there, and we’re going to massacre those sons of bitches!”. He was a plain talker. A lot of people didn’t like him because he sad what was on his mind. But man, he was good to the military.
MS: So, was there ever a point where you feel like during these proxy wars like Vietnam, or Korea, and sort of Afghanistan, that we should have pushed it a little bit further, and tried to win all out?
HS: Or at least destroy their will to fight. I mean, if you take, and you destroy their major weapon industries, what they going to do? I mean, you don’t see too many of them fighting with toothpicks.
MS: As the line moved up in Korea, were you concerned, or people concerned, when China began pushing back hard, and moving that line backward?
HS: China got told- by Truman- if we see one of your soldiers… one of your tanks come in, we will come in and destroy your whole goddamn country. There will be nothing left, so it’s your decision, because I want an answer, and you moving out in exactly twenty four hours. And man, they went “Bullshit”. They suddenly thought “We’re the nicest people in the world. Just… leave us alone. And then we ended up going to war with them. But that was their fault. You can only push people so far, and we hit the point where they’re going after you, going as far back as George Washington, he would say “Kill them all, and then don’t worry about it.” and that’s the whole thing. Now, we’re trying to be goody goody two shoes. Doesn’t work. Never has worked.
MS: What do you think you want to say about the war to future generations?
HS: I think you just have to tell them that when we go to war, we go to war full time, and we did go to destroy the enemy, instead of going “Oh, (He jumbles his words, making it hard to understand). We want to become a police group”. No. We’ve done that. More than once, and it’s always a pain in the ass. I don’t care what you do. You end up getting your troops shot for nothing.
MS: Going off of that a little bit, was there ever a pint when you thought that we were doing something wrong on our end as the United States?
HS: Ya. Ya, there have been a few times, but I have no say. Neither does anybody else hardly. It was usually when I was in the military.
MS: Like, what times specifically, just out of curiosity.
HS: Well it was during the Korean war.
CB: So, World War Two, people often describe as the good war, or they often talk about their fondness for that war. Would you say that, that was about the same for the Korean War?
HS: No. The World War Two was in theory- they kept quoting “This is the war to end all wars”. Hogwash. And the reason we had gone into Korea was we had treaties with them, and we were supporting them, and when the communists said- we started firing on our troops, and started firing on Korea, there wasn’t a choice. It was go do it. And they got one hell of a surprise. I mean we took out probably three quarters, to maybe a little more of their army. They were dead. And, we destroyed a big chunk of Korea. But, you know, everybody tries to do what they can get away with, and if it works it works, but ninety percent of the time it doesn’t.
MS: So do you think a lot of things from the Korean War have carried on till today.
HS: Just the fact that now they’re independent, and they have their own army, and they have their own defense operations, and they won’t let any one jump all over them.
CB: Well, what are your views on Korea, because it’s still separated into North and South, one being communist, and seclusionist-
HS: Well the communist part of Korea is a disaster area. They have famine. They have their own wars. They try to change the government… regularly. By assassination. By other things. And it’s always been a disaster. When the American troops went in at the end of world war two, it was a disaster. And it’s never been what you would call “Oh, look at that wonderful country”.
CB: Is there any thought in your mind that maybe South Korea would eventually become a more civilized nation.
HS: It is compared to North Korea.
CB: Sorry, North Korea. Do you think that eventually, maybe, North Korea would become a more civilized nation?
HS: Ya, if South Korea should threaten to kick their ass. Or if the United Nations would finally go and say “Hey! Enough of this crap”.
MC: Based on your experience in the Korean War, how do you feel North Korea will eventually reform, or change.
HS: It has to, otherwise it will die. You have all of the U.S. allies and the U.S. refusing to deal with them. They’ve got a bigger populations than they ever have now, and they can’t feed them. What they’re worried about is that at some point, they’ll have a revolution, and they’ll just kill all the communists, because that’s how they do things there, and so, they have to change. If they don’t, you’ll see them gone at some point.
MS: So, theoretically, if there were to be a second Korean war, where the North attacked again, or we attacked them, would you be in support of it.
HS: Only if we went in to clear them all out.
MS: As opposed to?
HS: As opposed to playing patty cake, and saying “Oh be good”, because that doesn’t work. Nowhere in Asia, unless- the who Teddy Roosevelt thing should still work, which is speak softly, but carry a big stick. And that’s what it takes. You have to say to them “Hey, if you keep screwing with us we will just go and kill all of you off, and destroy all your cities”. One thing about that. That gets their attention right away, because, basically, they know you have the ability to do it.
MS: So, this may be sort of a tangent question, but do you think if we were in the position to, the U.S. I mean, should we try to expand as much as possible?
HS: Where?
MS: Wherever we saw fit.
HS: No. That’s a fallacy. That’s nation building. It isn’t going to work. It hasn’t worked, unless we want to get out of the United Nations, and fight the world, which I don’t see as being advantageous. We’ve been there, done that.
MS: So, how did you feel about the East Berlin West Berlin situation?
HS: It was handled the best it could at that moment, but it was not handled well.
MS: What do you think could have been done to handle it a little better?
HS: We could have put more troops in, and told them if they couldn’t get rid of what was going on, that we’d go and clear out the whole peninsula. And we could have done it, and at that point, we could have. We had the bombs. We had the people. We had the forces, but at that point you had a president who didn’t want to make wave. Everybody was “*gasp* The United Nations. Let them do it. Let them do it”. Korea was a prime example of let them do it. It was a disaster.
MS: What was your opinion of how the United Nations was handling things?
HS: The United Nations is like going to a party with nine thousand people all screaming what they want, because all they do is sit there, and argue, and try to move stuff around. It’s a waste of time.
CB: So you’re against the United Nations?
HS: No. I’m against the way they’re listened to. I’m against the fact that our government goes and worries about them. No. They’re more worried about us, then we are about them, which is the way it should be, because they’re getting over a million dollars a year from the U.S. government, for nothing. And then we’re giving them aid packages. They think we’re a sponge that they can keep going back to. And there is a group of people in congress who want to get the hell out of there. I think they’re right.
MS: Do you side with them?
HS: Oh, I do. I think- figure out how many years we’ve been sending millions and millions of dollars there. If they can’t get their act together, who the hell needs them?
MS: Is there a situation you can think of that the United Nations has been doing something good?
HS: Ya. They send aid to the evolving countries. They go and send them money, depending on what their predicament is, except I wish they would send them less money.
MS: You think we need it here more right?
HS: I think we need it here. Well I think you’d have much happier public if some of it stayed here. Because that would go, “Oh look. Congress is going and doing something for us”, instead of “Those S.O.B.’s who needs them?”. It’s just the way of the world.
MC: Do you feel like, if the U.N. reformed with or dealt with things, it would still be a helpful force for us to be apart of?
HS: Of course. Because that way you have their funds, them able to push, most of the countries to donate funds, and send people to go and distribute it, so ya. It takes a lot off of the U.S.. I’m talking millions and millions. And I don’t think- you know it was fine when you had World War Two, and you had all this stuff going on, and there was so much destruction that you had to pump money in. Well, we pumped money in since the end of World War Two. It’s now somebody else’s time. But I’m a nasty old man.
MS: So I do think that’s all the time that we have, and that we have exhausted all of our questions.
HS: Ok. Good.
MS: Thanks very much.
MC: Yes, thank you.
HS: You’re welcome.
Narrator
Matthew Siegel
Interviewer
with comments by Colin Bellotti & Mason Cudlitz
May 17, 2014
at Howard Siegel’s Home
Los Angeles, California
Matthew Siegel - MS
Colin Bellotti - CB
Mason Cudlitz - MC
Howard Siegel - HS
MS: When I say Korean War, what is the first thing that you think of?
HS: Aggravation.
MS: How old were you when the Korean War started and how did this affect your feelings or understanding of the war?
HS: I think I was 17. Everybody thought it was an idiotic war to be into because we had no business being there. We’d taken it over because the Koreans didn’t want to have anything to do with them. They wanted to kill them. So we got stuck with it. The air force went there. Then, they wanted to move out, so they moved out. We went in.
MS: When you say you specifically, who are you talking about?
HS: The international guard. California Air Guard.
MS: What was your life like at the time?
HS: I was running stores for Ralph’s and training meat cutters– training people to run stores… management.
MS: What prompted you to join?
HS: I was a member of the reserve. I didn’t get asked. I got told. Comes in the form of a stack of orders.
MS: When the general public initially heard about the war, how did they immediately react?
HS: They were not to happy. It was not that short after WWII was over. So people were not anxious to see us going to war again. And they thought Korea was the middle of nowhere. Basically. And they thought we were taking somebody else’s war we shouldn’t have touched. There were all kinds of protests. All over. Every part of the country was screaming, “Don’t go!” The president had his thing and he said what we were going to do and we did it.
MS: What were your first days in service like?
HS: Mostly training. Well, mine was different because I was medical corps. I was surgical tech. The guys who went in at first went through bootcamp, which was a lot more rougher for them than it was for me.
MS: Was it difficult for you to adjust to this new lifestyle?
HS: No.
MS: No.
HS: No.
MS: Did you ever keep a personally diary or write to someone in your spare time?
HS: No. I wrote to your mother, but that’s about it. I’m not a prolific writer unless I have to.
MS: What exactly was your job during the Korean War? If you could go into specific details.
HS: I ran a crash crew. I ran surgery ‘cause I was surgical tech. We operated on people who’d come in and had mostly the veterans who they’d ship back to the states and still had problems. Either what went on in Korea was not a toting job or it was botched and then we would go and make all the changes and then get them back to what they’re doing and we’d send them to V.A. And occasionally V.A. would call and scream, “We need some help!” And then those of us who worked surgery would go to the V.A.
MS: So in what state were patients when they came back to you?
HS: They were injured. They had wounds. Some of them were mental cases. Test your usual run of the line that you get when some people have been in war. That’s why the V.A. has been out there as long as it has.
MS: Are there any specific things that come to mind? Like any specific cases that you worked at that time?
HS: I’ve worked in a lot of cases, mostly minor surgery. I cut them up to put them back together.
MS: Did it ever feel like the threat of communism was going to spread to America?
HS: Well, that’s what the congress was trying to teach us, which they embossed it too much and that’s why most of them got thrown out of office eventually. It was not a popular war. Came too close after World War II, and nobody knew where the hell Korea was when it started. So, it just was not a popular war. Probably least popular.
MS: So did it ever feel like communism was going to spread? Or was there no worry?
HS: Well, that’s what they were promoting. Keep the communisms out of here. Keep it from spreading. Blah blah blah blah blah, which was mostly talk. ‘Cause none of them knew what they were doing anyway.
CB: Were you worried about communism spreading?
HS: No, but I was ex-military because I was still in the military as a reservist. I knew that if we had to we could go and just bring an army out there and go back to beating the hell out of them. We’d done it once. We could do it a second time. We could do it a third time if we had to. The biggest thing that gave us the edge was our air power. They would just obliterate whole sections. You send 50-100 bombers in. They all drop bombs. There’s nothing left there. Take my word for it.
MS: Did you ever know anyone who did feel that way?
HS: Not really. There’s always a few bleeding hearts.
MS: Did you ever feel like the Korean War would lead to another full scaled World War?
HS: Only people who believed that were the politicians. They were sort of hoping for it, “Good we could spend all these millions!”
MS: What new perspectives, if any, did you gain about the United States or your role in the world that you had not previously had before the war?
HS: Basically, that we could do what was necessary if it had to be done, and that we were the first group to be called up after WWII. We did our job, and we came back and we brought back most of the troops. So, it was unusual. It wasn’t where you had a hundred thousand people in your army annihilated because you had God knows how many Germans fighting.
MS: Did you ever know anyone that was accused of being a communist?
HS: Yes.
CB: What were your thoughts on their way of life? Were you accepting of them or?
HS: No. We helped them get put into a special category which took them bye bye. What’s interesting, before that nobody worried about people bringing people who weren’t in the military. And after that, these people didn’t want to get caught. Didn’t want to go and have it put on their record. So, it became hard to get them. Make them either go through the process or be put in a different category. They’d leave them there. They would tell them them point blank. There’s nothing to go and show you what to do. There’s nothing to make you do it.
MS: What was your experience with those people once you found out they were communists?
HS: Just to try and get them to do what they had to do and get out.
MS: So within the military, it’s fair to say there was a very anti-communist sort of vibe?
HS: Yeah usually. Usually.
MS: Did you ever have any direct experience in the communist blacklistings?
HS: I’ve seen people who have been blacklisted.
MS: That was generally a good thing when that happened?
HS: Yes and no. It went berserk. Like everything else when people go, “[gasp] We gotta get them!” Up where the park is, there’s a building that used to be a small form of the VA enforcement, that sort of thing, and they wanted to make sure they could qualify everyone who had to be sent some place, which didn’t last long ‘cause they got too many of them with not enough places to put them. That’s when they had the investigation of the Unamerican Activities Committee. And they said, “There’s only supposed to be 10% communists here, and you have 100,000 people going through all of our jails.” And then congress went and kicked their butt, and they straightened it out. It was wild for a long time. They would see somebody, and somebody makes some liberal comment, “They must be a communist. Listen what they’re spouting. Call the cops and tell ‘em.” And then the poor cops would end up with 14, 15, 16 people coming to this station because [gasp] these people said they’re communists. And man, it would take forever to get them released or put on probation or do whatever they were going to do before they get turned loose. So you’d have all these people having to be fed, having to have medical care, having to be guarded, and somebody finally woke up in the state senate and the Commie Board of Supervisors going, “Hey, do you know how much money this is costing us? We’re not supposed to have them!”
MC: Would you say that the label as a witch hunt is accurate?
HS: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Half the people wouldn’t believe it, but it’s typically a witch hunt. They weren’t quite as mad as they were going and wearing white hoods and that sort of thing.
CB: When did you work in film?
HS: Oh God. 16, 17, and 18.
MS: So that’d be before the Korean War?
HS: Well, Korean War was on, and that was before I had to go visit it.
CB: So during that time did you see a lot of movie stars get put behind bars for being com[munists]?
HS: There were a fair amount. There wasn’t a huge amount. They more threatened them.
MS: Anyone that you knew personally?
HS: Yeah, a few that I knew personally. ‘Cause I used to be down in the studios and when they were short somebody, I’d get called in and get paid for one or three days or whatever it was, and they paid very well. Of course, you had a couple of uncles who were directors and made movies. It is not a good industry.
MS: So what were your opinions on General MacArthur?
HS: MacArthur? Well, shall I give you the military’s stime on him?
MS: Both or all of them.
HS: Most of the people who were in the service thought he was an S.O.B. ‘cause he thought he was God. He thought when he got his fourth star, he could do anything he wanted– didn’t give a damn what ever happened to anybody else. They were going to do it his way. Or he was going to make sure they were court martialed. Well, after they court martialed a bunch of people, all these people said, “Yeah? Then we want MacArthur court martialed ‘cause he’s a useless son of a bitch.” and they said it in front of cameras. And, they said it to congressmen. That was when they called him for congressional committee and fired his ass. He was a real West Pointerter. Some West Pointerters are great, and some of them are just so dumb. That wall could tell me more than most of them could do.
MS: So most of the people in the service were happy with how Truman handled MacArthur?
HS: Oh yeah. They were ready to give Truman a medal. Truman was a different type of character. He was the senator from Missouri, he’d been in the World War I, and he’d basically would get up in congress and say to the generals, “I don’t give a damn what you say. I’ve been there, done that so don’t tell me what the hell you’re going to do. Just get your in gear and do it!” And the newspapers and the television just ate him up. That’s why he ran for election ‘cause then he couldn’t be beaten.
MS: So what do you think of how Truman handled the war?
HS: He did the best he could. Gotta remember he was a minor senator who’d never been let loose, and then when Alben Barkley had his heart attack, who was supposed to become president after the present had died, they sent him in and the next thing he knew, he was in Korea with the troops, but he was sharp. Ex-soldier. He’d just say, “Get up there and get ‘em!”
MS: And most people were in support of that idea?
HS: Yeah. After you’ve had a war screwing around for 5 or 6 years. The public doesn’t want to know about it, they want it done. Get the hell out. Get finished. Kill them all. Go home. That was the big thing. The Times probably has copies of those papers. He would go, “We don’t need this! Get out troops out!” and everybody’d go, “God, he’s nasty.” He’d go, “Yeah, I am! I’m president also! You’ll do what I tell you!” And he was that way. He was something else.
MC: So you said, “Kill them all.” What was the public opinion on using nuclear weapons on Korea?
HS: Get it done and get it over with. ‘Cause we were losing, the Koreans were almost the same as the Japanese ‘cause the Japanese had been in Korea. So, they were all for kamikaze attacks, kill everybody, don’t care who they are. And, when they started trying to do it here, they sent the marines in, and they said, “Let’s blow ‘em all up.” And they did pretty good. And all of a sudden, they didn’t want to fight anymore.
MS: So specifically what did you think about the speculation that we should drop an atomic bomb on Korea?
HS: It was reasonable. We would’ve had to have spent probably another 5 or 6 years without it and probably suffered maybe 100,000 casualties and losses. Why put up with it when you can take an atomic bomb and go BOOM and there’s nothing left? And all the guys that I knew that were flying there said, “Man, love it.” ‘Cause they wanted to come home.
MS: Right, so it was seen as an easy means to a short end to the war?
HS: Yeah. It was. It ended the war over night.
MS: Right. What do you think of how Eisenhower handled the war?
HS: Eisenhower was a different thing. Eisenhower was a West Pointer trained officer who had commanded troops in the field, and he knew what he was doing. So, when they needed somebody because they were running into massive losses, they said, “Put your stars on, you’re going to go and run the troops in Korea.” And, he did a hell of a job. And he told the Koreans, “You will fight with us, or we will make sure you can go and visit the communists and stay there.”
MS: Was there a lot of Korean dissent from the American involvement?
HS: Not really, there was a lot of it because you’ve got to remember, here was a country that, for 100 years, were ruled by the others and they were obnoxious. They didn’t care how many people they killed. They caught you and you were there and they thought you were doing something, they just blow you away. It wasn’t ’til we got there and started killing them that it ceased.
MS: I’m not sure how much you know in this subject, but what did you think of Syngman Rhee? The Leader of Korea at the time?
HS: He had a very difficult job. He did a good job. They had not had a president who could actually run the country for probably thirty years. He got the job, and went at it full of steam. The U.S. government said we will give you everything you need just get them the hell out of here. And he did. He was a character. He liked to play God, but he got the job done. And at a certain point, you don’t care how they get the job done, just as long so they get the job done.
MS: So, how do you think the war affected the world over all?
HS: It actually showed that the U.S. was a power to be reckoned with. And that we could train an army of a country that we were supporting, and they could go do the job with us. And Eventually they did it themselves.
MS: So, what distinguishable point or goal did we accomplish or meet by going into Korea, in your eyes?
HS: We got the communists out of there, because they were stealing the country blind. We got them out of there so they couldn’t convert a bunch of people into making them all soldiers, and we stabilized the country, and it’s been a good training field for us. It’s been a good place to send stuff, or to have them send us stuff.
MS: Do you think it’s gone well since the end of the war in Korea?
HS: Oh ya, one hundred percent better, because during the war it was the pits.
MS: Do you reflect on the war, and your role in the war in a fond way?
HS: I wouldn’t say fond way. It was something that had to be done, and we did it. I mean I don’t think anybody really wants to go to war, if you could avoid it, but at that point it was either watch Korea disappear and probably our units there, and would cost us a lot of injuries, and a lot of casualties, so we went in, did what had to be done, and then got the hell out.
CB: So you have no regrets about the war, or just how it’s handled, or your role in the war.
HS: Well, no, I don’t have any regrets. It had to be done. I mean you can either sit there, and get your people killed, or your ass kicked, or you can go and fight back, and show them that you are stronger than they are and defeat them. You know, there’s… people think because a lot of the- I don’t like using the words pacifists, but they are- there are a lot of congressmen and senators who don’t want to be responsible for having people killed. Then hell, why the hell did you run for office? Basically what are you doing in the congress of the United States? We used to go and rag on some of the congressmen and senators like you can’t believe, because they come up with “Well maybe we should go and give them more weapons, and pull all our troops out.” Well ya, and then all your troops get killed off waiting for them to do anything, and you know, it’s the way things are. We saw that in other wars. It doesn’t work. When you go to war, you kick ass. Plain and simple. You don’t sit back and go “Oh ya, we’ll see what you’re going to do”. No, cause you’ll be carrying the body count.
MS: So, feeling they way that you feel about the Korean war, were you in favor of Vietnam, or should we have intervened in-
HS: We didn’t have any way of getting us out of Vietnam, because it was in such a disaster, that we had to go in just to keep us getting- the big thought was “We don’t want to be in world war three”, and that’s why we went in… basically. And then we also did well, because we got all sorts of things out of Korea.
MS: Was there ever a point where you were worried that… maybe… either the Russians would invade places like Europe, or the United States even?
HS: No.
MS: No?
HS: At that point, you have to remember, we had SAC, and the Russians were told pointedly at the U.N. by the president, and the chief of staff that if they dropped so much as one goddamn bomb we would obliterate the whole country. And we could do it. At that point we had, probably, the number one air force in the world.
MS: Was there ever a point where you feel like we should have done something preemptively?
HS: We probably should have, but you’re dealing with politicians. You’re dealing with people who don’t want to make waves, and that’s why we were late getting into world war one. That’s why we barely got into world war two, and Korea. Because, you had all these people going “*gasp* We don’t need all that. We should just talk to them.” Well… talk doesn’t do anything. It’s like, you’re going into a liquor store, and a guy, standing there with a gun- are you going to talk to him? Hell no. You’re going to run like hell the other way… unless you have a weapon. *Chuckles*
CB: So, would you have advocated invading Russia at some point, during the Cold War?
HS: Only if they attacked us. Because, at that point we were very strong. I was still in the reserves. We were very strong. We had the ability to go kick their ass with the strategic air command. And they were told that. The first time you try to taek over some part of us, or attack any of us, we will obliterate the Soviet Union, down to the last goddamn soul. And they said “You wouldn’t”. And we said, “Watch us”. I mean, I will say one thing for the president of the time. He was a feisty old man. And he just said to him “We don’t have to take your crap. We’re not going to take your crap.”, and I mean, he said it point blank.
MS: Which president exactly?
HS: Oh, the one that took over from Roosevelt. What the hell was his name?
MS: Truman?
HS: From Kentucky. Ya, from Kentucky… or… something like that.
MS: The name isn’t coming to me right now.
HS: Ya, but he was president at the time and he says “We can’t back down”. I mean he was an old Cavalry officer, and he went into politics and he just said, point blank, “There is no way we’re going to put up with this shit”, and that’s exactly the way he said it too. And he says “We’re gonna go in there, and we’re going to massacre those sons of bitches!”. He was a plain talker. A lot of people didn’t like him because he sad what was on his mind. But man, he was good to the military.
MS: So, was there ever a point where you feel like during these proxy wars like Vietnam, or Korea, and sort of Afghanistan, that we should have pushed it a little bit further, and tried to win all out?
HS: Or at least destroy their will to fight. I mean, if you take, and you destroy their major weapon industries, what they going to do? I mean, you don’t see too many of them fighting with toothpicks.
MS: As the line moved up in Korea, were you concerned, or people concerned, when China began pushing back hard, and moving that line backward?
HS: China got told- by Truman- if we see one of your soldiers… one of your tanks come in, we will come in and destroy your whole goddamn country. There will be nothing left, so it’s your decision, because I want an answer, and you moving out in exactly twenty four hours. And man, they went “Bullshit”. They suddenly thought “We’re the nicest people in the world. Just… leave us alone. And then we ended up going to war with them. But that was their fault. You can only push people so far, and we hit the point where they’re going after you, going as far back as George Washington, he would say “Kill them all, and then don’t worry about it.” and that’s the whole thing. Now, we’re trying to be goody goody two shoes. Doesn’t work. Never has worked.
MS: What do you think you want to say about the war to future generations?
HS: I think you just have to tell them that when we go to war, we go to war full time, and we did go to destroy the enemy, instead of going “Oh, (He jumbles his words, making it hard to understand). We want to become a police group”. No. We’ve done that. More than once, and it’s always a pain in the ass. I don’t care what you do. You end up getting your troops shot for nothing.
MS: Going off of that a little bit, was there ever a pint when you thought that we were doing something wrong on our end as the United States?
HS: Ya. Ya, there have been a few times, but I have no say. Neither does anybody else hardly. It was usually when I was in the military.
MS: Like, what times specifically, just out of curiosity.
HS: Well it was during the Korean war.
CB: So, World War Two, people often describe as the good war, or they often talk about their fondness for that war. Would you say that, that was about the same for the Korean War?
HS: No. The World War Two was in theory- they kept quoting “This is the war to end all wars”. Hogwash. And the reason we had gone into Korea was we had treaties with them, and we were supporting them, and when the communists said- we started firing on our troops, and started firing on Korea, there wasn’t a choice. It was go do it. And they got one hell of a surprise. I mean we took out probably three quarters, to maybe a little more of their army. They were dead. And, we destroyed a big chunk of Korea. But, you know, everybody tries to do what they can get away with, and if it works it works, but ninety percent of the time it doesn’t.
MS: So do you think a lot of things from the Korean War have carried on till today.
HS: Just the fact that now they’re independent, and they have their own army, and they have their own defense operations, and they won’t let any one jump all over them.
CB: Well, what are your views on Korea, because it’s still separated into North and South, one being communist, and seclusionist-
HS: Well the communist part of Korea is a disaster area. They have famine. They have their own wars. They try to change the government… regularly. By assassination. By other things. And it’s always been a disaster. When the American troops went in at the end of world war two, it was a disaster. And it’s never been what you would call “Oh, look at that wonderful country”.
CB: Is there any thought in your mind that maybe South Korea would eventually become a more civilized nation.
HS: It is compared to North Korea.
CB: Sorry, North Korea. Do you think that eventually, maybe, North Korea would become a more civilized nation?
HS: Ya, if South Korea should threaten to kick their ass. Or if the United Nations would finally go and say “Hey! Enough of this crap”.
MC: Based on your experience in the Korean War, how do you feel North Korea will eventually reform, or change.
HS: It has to, otherwise it will die. You have all of the U.S. allies and the U.S. refusing to deal with them. They’ve got a bigger populations than they ever have now, and they can’t feed them. What they’re worried about is that at some point, they’ll have a revolution, and they’ll just kill all the communists, because that’s how they do things there, and so, they have to change. If they don’t, you’ll see them gone at some point.
MS: So, theoretically, if there were to be a second Korean war, where the North attacked again, or we attacked them, would you be in support of it.
HS: Only if we went in to clear them all out.
MS: As opposed to?
HS: As opposed to playing patty cake, and saying “Oh be good”, because that doesn’t work. Nowhere in Asia, unless- the who Teddy Roosevelt thing should still work, which is speak softly, but carry a big stick. And that’s what it takes. You have to say to them “Hey, if you keep screwing with us we will just go and kill all of you off, and destroy all your cities”. One thing about that. That gets their attention right away, because, basically, they know you have the ability to do it.
MS: So, this may be sort of a tangent question, but do you think if we were in the position to, the U.S. I mean, should we try to expand as much as possible?
HS: Where?
MS: Wherever we saw fit.
HS: No. That’s a fallacy. That’s nation building. It isn’t going to work. It hasn’t worked, unless we want to get out of the United Nations, and fight the world, which I don’t see as being advantageous. We’ve been there, done that.
MS: So, how did you feel about the East Berlin West Berlin situation?
HS: It was handled the best it could at that moment, but it was not handled well.
MS: What do you think could have been done to handle it a little better?
HS: We could have put more troops in, and told them if they couldn’t get rid of what was going on, that we’d go and clear out the whole peninsula. And we could have done it, and at that point, we could have. We had the bombs. We had the people. We had the forces, but at that point you had a president who didn’t want to make wave. Everybody was “*gasp* The United Nations. Let them do it. Let them do it”. Korea was a prime example of let them do it. It was a disaster.
MS: What was your opinion of how the United Nations was handling things?
HS: The United Nations is like going to a party with nine thousand people all screaming what they want, because all they do is sit there, and argue, and try to move stuff around. It’s a waste of time.
CB: So you’re against the United Nations?
HS: No. I’m against the way they’re listened to. I’m against the fact that our government goes and worries about them. No. They’re more worried about us, then we are about them, which is the way it should be, because they’re getting over a million dollars a year from the U.S. government, for nothing. And then we’re giving them aid packages. They think we’re a sponge that they can keep going back to. And there is a group of people in congress who want to get the hell out of there. I think they’re right.
MS: Do you side with them?
HS: Oh, I do. I think- figure out how many years we’ve been sending millions and millions of dollars there. If they can’t get their act together, who the hell needs them?
MS: Is there a situation you can think of that the United Nations has been doing something good?
HS: Ya. They send aid to the evolving countries. They go and send them money, depending on what their predicament is, except I wish they would send them less money.
MS: You think we need it here more right?
HS: I think we need it here. Well I think you’d have much happier public if some of it stayed here. Because that would go, “Oh look. Congress is going and doing something for us”, instead of “Those S.O.B.’s who needs them?”. It’s just the way of the world.
MC: Do you feel like, if the U.N. reformed with or dealt with things, it would still be a helpful force for us to be apart of?
HS: Of course. Because that way you have their funds, them able to push, most of the countries to donate funds, and send people to go and distribute it, so ya. It takes a lot off of the U.S.. I’m talking millions and millions. And I don’t think- you know it was fine when you had World War Two, and you had all this stuff going on, and there was so much destruction that you had to pump money in. Well, we pumped money in since the end of World War Two. It’s now somebody else’s time. But I’m a nasty old man.
MS: So I do think that’s all the time that we have, and that we have exhausted all of our questions.
HS: Ok. Good.
MS: Thanks very much.
MC: Yes, thank you.
HS: You’re welcome.